Talk:Black blade of disaster (summon)
Challenge rating Is there any reason the challenge rating was changed to 39. The blueprint reads 48, and an in-game spawn and CR check also gave a 48 read out. WhiZard 01:51, April 20, 2010 (UTC) * It comes up as 39 in the Toolset (if you have the override in place to see summoned creatures). Guess I should have realized that the Toolset would recalculate the challenge rating, while the game would rely on what's in the blueprint. Next time I'll try to remember to double-check the blueprint before changing a CR based on the Toolset (since it's the in-game CR that matters). --The Krit 10:01, April 20, 2010 (UTC) :* Yeah, the toolset miscalculates a few things, including epic saves (which in one instance took me many hours to figure out why these values weren't adding up, as I was playtesting another feature). I was particularly thinking that you might have been referring to a maximum by which a higher CR wouldn't give more XP, and claiming this maximum to be CR 39 (I haven't investigated this to particularly know the maximum). WhiZard 12:33, April 20, 2010 (UTC) ::* I don't think this is a case of the Toolset miscalculating. (In a sense it cannot be miscalculating since it is the only aspect of NWN that calculates challenge ratings, hence the CR formula is whatever the Toolset uses.) More likely either the CR calculation in the blueprint is wrong or the blueprint is missing the intended manual CR adjustment. Doesn't really matter though because CRs can be adjusted manually — we might as well assume that the CR in the blueprint is the intended CR. --The Krit 20:53, April 20, 2010 (UTC) :::* Well the blueprint matches GetChallengeRating() (of 48) when the Toolkit reports the 39. I have also seen saves in epic development reported contrary to an in-game GetFortitudeSave(), etc. What the Toolkit displays is not always what the scripts use. Whether the XP for kills is based on the CR of the Toolkit or the CR of the command, I have no idea. WhiZard 23:20, April 20, 2010 (UTC) ::::* Isn't that what I already said -- "the game would rely on what's in the blueprint"? The game has no reason to recalculate the CR when a creature is spawned -- it should just use whatever is in the blueprint. So of course the blueprint matches what GetChallengeRating() reports, because GetChallengeRating() reports the CR stored in the newly-made instance, and the CR in the newly-made instance was copied from the blueprint. Similarly, XP would be based on the blueprint's CR because the game has no other number to work with. The CR reported by the Toolset does not even exist until I edit a placed instance (or a copy) of the BBoD creature. (As for the epic saves, those are different because the game does calculate those and BioWare has documented what they should be, so there is something for the Toolset to disagree with.) ::::: :::::Hmm... maybe that's a good demonstration of what I mean. Here's a test I just did. I placed an instance of BBoD in my test module, then ran the module. A script reported that the BBoD's challenge rating was 48. Then I opened up the BBoD's properties, made no changes, and hit "OK" to close the window. Ran the test again, and the script reported the BBoD's challenge rating was 39. The game is not calculating challenge ratings; it is merely reporting what was recorded earlier, either by the Toolset or in the blueprint. The Toolset is not and cannot be messing up this calculation because the calculation is solely defined by whatever the Toolset says it is. --The Krit 02:04, April 21, 2010 (UTC) ::::::*Did the 39CR version have the same ResRef as the 48CR? Or was the blueprint in the custom tab of the Toolset. WhiZard 11:25, April 21, 2010 (UTC) :::::::* All I did was open up the properties window and hit OK. I was editing a placed creature, not a blueprint. So yes, same ResRef. --The Krit 11:43, April 21, 2010 (UTC) :::::Edit: Something you might want to try: extract the BBoD blueprint, and change the CR recorded in that to 2.0 with a GFF editor. Drop that in your override directory, then repeat your test getting the CR via a script. I bet your script will now return 2.0. --The Krit 02:21, April 21, 2010 (UTC) :::::*OK, I misunderstood your statement earlier. I had thought the words "More likely either the CR calculation in the blueprint is wrong or the blueprint is missing the intended manual CR adjustment." meant that the blueprint CR was off game play, thus being an incorrect reading. Thus, I interpreted your description of the CR bug as being the same bug as the epic saves (which are a definite case of a miscalculation/misreporting). WhiZard 03:47, April 21, 2010 (UTC) :::* One idea I have is to unequip the greatsword in the Toolkit view and see if that impacts the CR box at all. It could be that the CR is increased above the Toolkit settings by the gear (non-creature slot) equipped. WhiZard 23:56, April 20, 2010 (UTC) ::::*Unequipping the sword lowers the CR. --The Krit 02:04, April 21, 2010 (UTC) Discrepancy The description doesn't seem to match the description of the spell. Also, there are several different numbers/descriptions for the blade: including +5Enhancement, +15AB, +28/+23AB, and +15 Weapon Bonus for damage reduction. It's very hard to understand. Dremble 19:35, September 3, 2010 (UTC) * Following up in Talk:Black blade of disaster#Discrepancy. (Asking in both talk pages is probably good for people finding the question, but I think it will be less confusing to stick to one for replies.) --The Krit 21:59, September 3, 2010 (UTC)